Surly-bru-ha-ha
By Kevin Sawyer
The local foodie outrage du jour relates to the decision by Surdyk’s to charge $36 for a bottle of the much-ballyhooed Surly Darkness. The idea is, because most stores sell (out within hours) the brew for $18, the good folks at Surdyk’s were thereby obliged to do the same.
To which: Hogwash.
For starters, price fixing happens to be illegal. That swings both ways. Surdyk’s may (and often does) choose to undercut competition by lowering prices. That’s how our economy works. Stores cannot agree to charge a certain amount, which would screw over customers. They are thusly allowed to charge whatever they please, to avoid getting screwed.
Second, contra owner Omar Ansari’s outrage, Surly makes a killing doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING. Surly pushes the market value of its beer by obfuscating the degree to which the brewery makes it available. Having had an iteration of the Darkness, I can say with confidence the empirical value of the stuff is less than half of $18. Most great imperials are around $6-8 for 750 ml. It certainly doesn’t merit waiting overnight in the cold, as Surly expects its customers to do in late October just for the opportunity to buy the stuff.
Third, it just so happens Surdyk’s is an outstanding place to shop for booze. The store is clean, with an intuitive layout, absurdly strong selection and a very helpful staff. This isn’t some municipal liquor store arbitrarily cooking the books. Surdyk’s is consolidating the cost to provide an extra measure of service (which includes free parking and carryout) against a very popular item.
If you want to be zealous about consuming Surly beer, be my guest. If you want to camp out all night for it, I’ll be a few blocks away, sleeping in my own bed. I happen to think the Abrasive ale is a full iteration better than the Darkness, but to each his own. But if you’re planning to boycott Surdyk’s for the sheer fact they are charging market price to sell one particular product, you are cutting your nose off to spite your face.
This is so annoying. The question shouldn’t be whether Surdyk’s CAN do it, but SHOULD they? Of course they can, but is it a good business decision to piss off your base of craft beer fans? This is bad PR.
Punch Pizza had a similar era of horrible PR when they refused to let people photograph their pizza or ovens. Word hit the internet and people were pissed. They realized they were wrong and turned it into one of the most successful PR campaigns in town. They had a photography contest. In short time they went from being hated in the online community to loved.
Surdyk’s can do whatever they want, but just because they can, doesn’t mean they should. Taking advantage of your customers is rarely a good idea.
And most great Imperials are not $6-8. Three Floyds Dark Lord is $15. Most beers that are limited in release, and as complex as an Imperial Stout, are priced above $10-15.
I’m not a fan of the way Surdyks priced the Darkness this year, but the significant deals they offer on wine and liquor throughout the year more than make up for them jacking up the price on one particular item.
I agree it’s bad PR, but I have trouble getting my dander up over a company’s poor PR decisions. Bad PR is not the same as bad ethics.
I happen to think this is also bad PR for Surly, because it has given a voice to those who are a wee tad tired of hearing from “Surly Nation”. Presumably, Surly would rather not jump the shark prior to opening their beer coliseum. Calling out retailers is never a good idea.
It isn’t as though Surdyk’s goes out of its way to provide a poor customer experience. Maintaining a huge selection at reasonable prices has to come at some sort of premium. Whether that premium is concentrated on one particularly popular product, or spread across the entire inventory is an economic decision, not a moral one.
I, as usual, disagree with most of your points Kevin.
While you are correct that Surly has created a market demand by producing a finite amount of these bottles (though it’s not just the number of bottles… it’s the unique quality of what’s IN those bottles), what happened at Surdyk’s goes beyond the pale (whether or not, as Moe pointed out, it is legal to do so).
The fact is there are way more stores that want to stock these seasonal Surly products than the supply allows. So Surdyk’s was given a privilege to be able to take part of the sale, for which they gain not only the financial benefit of the sale, but also the new-business benefit of bringing in Surly fans who might not have stopped in their store otherwise. In addition, it helps retain their existing business of craft beer fans, because now they won’t be making their periodic run at another store that carries Darkness. Instead of recognizing these benefits, they decided to act as if they were an individual buyer who is selling their 3 – 4 bottles (purchased at retail prices) for an attempt at profit. Surdyk’s was allowed to purchase many bottles at WHOLESALE prices, while others weren’t able to sell any at all… and they decided to abuse that privilege by selling them at a ridiculous cost. But pricing alone wasn’t enough of a middle finger to their customers. The final kicker was the attitude of the owner about the situation (as quoted in the City Pages)… instead of recognizing that having Darkness would add to their reputation of being a great resource for craft beer, he decides to insult those who scoff at his pricing.
I hope that Surly decides to pull their products from Surdyk’s. There are plenty of other retail locations that would love the opportunity to bring their seasonal beers to the consumer at reasonable prices. Surdyk’s has a right to price limited bottles as they see fit, but Surly also has the right to sell their limited product to those who won’t engage in such ridiculous practices. This is similar to Ticketmaster and their high fees, and why many venues and artists are now choosing alternative ticketing services. As a business you CAN price gouge your customers (when you have access to a limited product), but people will move to an alternative, more reasonasble resource as soon as one is available. As moe said, this is just bad PR and a real stupid move in the long run. I would think this would set off red flags for other shoppers who don’t know, or could care less about Surly. If they’re charging $15+ more than other locations for that bottle of Surly, what about that bottle of wine you just bought for dinner? Most people don’t have time to sit down and do pricing research… they want to find a retail outlet that they trust is bringing them quality products at competitive prices.
Again, a retail business has every right to price things as they see fit… but when that pricing and subsequent comments reflects a total lack of respect for their patrons, they deserve to lose business. They certainly lost mine. Your comment about “cutting off your nose to spite your face” is patently ridiculous. One can quite easily never, ever shop at Surdyk’s and will still find a large number of quality retail stores that stock craft beer.
As one of the people who was first in line at Darkness Day, it’s not just about Darkness. It’s about having a good time with like-minded people. Surly (and their neighbors) were kind enough to allow such an event on their grounds. Sure it was a bit chilly, but we kept warm by one of the meat smokers people brought with great food to share (Darkness mixed with cream cheese and bacon, then stuffed into a jalapeno, then wrapped in prosciutto and smoked for 3 hours!). Complete strangers walking around with world class beers and sharing samples (09 Dark Lord for breakfast!). It was an absolutely great time, and Omar, Todd, and many other Surly employees contributed to the success of the event. Good people making good beer. “Fanboi” or not, many people left Darkness Day with a new or rekindled love for the brand and the great beers they make.
Sure, even $18/bottle is a bit steep, and paying scalper rates is just dumb. But, like many Surly beers, Darkness is not cheap to make. Especially when you add in the special run of bottles, wax, etc. Limited quantities of extremely high quality = higher price, beer or not, that’s just economics. The $18 price tag includes tax if that helps at all.
While I cherish my supply of 4 bottles, they won’t be appearing on ebay or craigslist. I’d rather save them for special occasions to share with friends and family, as all good beers should be.
Thanks Kevin. Well said. Surly made a decision when they priced their beer. They underpriced it evidently. Despite Surly’s accolades they are no charity outfit and they have no right to expect that Surdyk’s will act as one either. If you need to get this product to prove your beer-geek cred, the cost is high.
Ticketmaster gouges customers because it is, essentially, a monopoly. Not at all so in the case of Surdyk’s. As you mention, you can shop at plenty of places that sell craft beer.
The notion it is a privilege to sell this or that product is ludicrous. If Surly wants to operate under that assumption, they’ll be the next Netflix.
Surdyk’s may be a decent place to shop for booze but it is abysmal when it comes to beer. They have a mediocre selection and staff that is unhelpful at best and incompetent at worst.
I also don’t think I’ve ever been to Surdyk’s when there wasn’t a sale going on. Why? Could it be that things are marked enough that they can afford to discount them down to levels that other places are selling them? With three products, beer, wine, and liquor, marked up 10-100% over your competitors, you can afford to offer “significant deals” 1/3 of the time while laughing all the way to the bank the other 2/3 of the time for any given product group.
You’re right though, let them charge whatever the hell they want. I usually drop $30-50 a week in there for lunch and beer for the office since I work in the neighborhood and it’s close. Because of the Darkness fiasco, I’ve decided to take my business elsewhere. No skin off my back, and I’m sure none off Jim’s.
Yeah, you’re right, Surly will definitely become the next Netflix if they continue to keep their Darkness prices low, even when they know they could sell it for more.
Excellent analogy. ???
That’s not my argument. If you approach your product as a privilege, you are headed for trouble.
Surly didn’t say their product is a privilege… I did. And it is. Darkness Day had something like 4,000 people attend. Retail stores are selling out of Darkness in hours. Being one of the select retail outlets to sell a product with that kind of a demand, when others are unable to, is most definitely a privilege.
Given Surly’s enormous growth over the last few years, and the fact that they haven’t been the ones gouging the consumer (in fact they’ve upped their production of Darkness from 500 bottles to nearly 20,000 bottles… and have only raised the price $1 since that time)… I’d say any comparisons to Netflix are ridiculous.
Taking on your retailers over the pricing of your product implies it is a privilege to sell the product. Could you imagine if Coastal Seafoods publicly castigated Stewart for selling their stuff at a markup?
This is terrible.
“Most great imperials are around $6-8 for 750 ml.” Lol. Citation needed.
“It certainly doesn’t merit waiting overnight in the cold, as Surly expects its customers to do in late October just for the opportunity to buy the stuff.”
Surly doesn’t expect it’s customers to do that at all. There were hundreds of people waiting overnight because they want to. It’s a fun time and people generally seem to enjoy, especially given this October’s extremely warm weather.
Your description of Surdyk’s applies to many other quality liquor stores in the TC that didn’t sell Darkness for what I thought were ridiculous prices. If that’s how they want to price their products, fine, but I don’t have to shop there if they choose to do so.
I like Surly, but I don’t have so much emotionally invested in the company that I think its products should transcend simple principles of economics. I’m actually much less irritated with Surdyk’s pricing than I am with the incessant hype over Surly’s constant stream of seasonal and specialty beers.
I’d _prefer_ that liquor stores price the product at a point that gives ordinary people a chance to pick up a bottle (even if it’s priced as a luxury good) instead of pricing it like a commodity beer and having the entire production snatched up by beer snobs and speculators.
Hey Kevin………show us where Surly, the actual company, is taking on their retailers over pricing as you claim. The only evidence we have of Surly, the actual company, even being upset is one singular tweet from Omar saying he was disappointed and “hot”. You are taking a Grand Canyon type leap even implying Surly Brewing Company is taking on their retailers.
What you are doing Kevin….is taking comments made from Surly fans and attributing them to Omar and Surly Brewing. Which is quite hacky and insulting to anyone who is reading this blog.
Basically Kevin here is stating:
1) He doesn’t like Darkness or think it’s all that special
2) He likes Surdyk’s.
3) Darkness shouldn’t be priced at $18/bottle.
So Kevin is telling Surly fans that they should quit complaining about the price at which his favorite store Surdyk’s is selling Darkness AND telling Surly that their Darkness isn’t worth $18/bottle. He’s also passing along misinformation about pricing of the best RIS’s AND he’s clearly never been to Four Firkins, Princeton’s in Maple Grove, Heritage, or Blue Max in Burnsville which all offer the same qualities as his favorite store EXCEPT they don’t F their customers. So Kevin, since you are not a fan of Surly and love Surdyk’s you can continue to shop there. Surly fans will shop and the many other fine establishments that don’t gouge them. It’s that easy. Hope it was worth it to Jim to gain that extra dough on Darkness ’11 to lose future dough on Surly customers no longer shopping there. And I know it’s not gonna be every Surly fan…..but even 30-40% will hurt Surdyk’s bottom line.
Surdyks has a crap beer selection. The “Municipal Liquor Store” in Saint Anthony, however, has among the best selections in all of the twin cities.
Who cares what they do with their prices, free country.
Surdyks certainly does have some nice cheeses though.
You have a right to shop where you want. I never said otherwise. I think boycotting a store over the price of one particularly popular item is silly, but you also have a right to be silly.
“3) Darkness shouldn’t be priced at $18/bottle.”
Where did I say this?
“Four Firkins, Princeton’s in Maple Grove, Heritage, or Blue Max”
I frequently shop at Four Firkins and Blue Max, as well as Zipps and The Ale Jail. I infrequently shop at Surdyk’s because the location is not convenient for me. None of what you say is clear from what I wrote.
I can’t believe the legs this story has on HT, here and elsewhere. I mean, I’ve enjoyed every Surly beer I’ve had,including Darkness is an excellent imperial (though I find it overpriced at even $18 per bottle). And I have great admiration for Omar’s DIY business instincts. But
as for the whole brand worship of Surly vis a vis Darkness Day and this whole Surdyk’s kerfuffle, I can only imagine how much they save on marketing by having a bunch of bored perma-adolescents who grew up absolutely having to have every Star Wars action figure the day it came out clamoring for their limited release beers.
sorry…reminds me of this:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x930vt_william-shatner-snl-skit-get-a-life_fun
Geoff,
Surdyk’s would be Toys r’ Us in that analogy.
Give me a case of Spotted Cow ($30) and wake me up when this is over.
Kevin S.,
I believe Surdyk’s would be more like Children’s Palace in that analogy. Toys R’ Us came too late for Star Wars.
1- Surdyk’s wine selection is bland at best, especially considering their buying power.
2- It is becoming a more common topic amongst the public regarding restaurant wine mark up, as in 3-4 times is akin to raping and pillaging. Cost on Darkness is $13- the outcry is justified and understandable when viewed this way.
Things I’ve learned today:
#1 The MN beer-geek/Surly fan crowd mobilizes fast. Holy smokes.
#2 They stay on message.
Like a bunch of Furious Tea Baggers. Hey…that gives me a great idea for a beer!
Food for thought: If, as claimed above, cost on Darkness is $13, and Surly sold 20,000 bottles at $18 each, they made a quick $100,000 on Darkness Day.
Yet people are VOLUNTEERING to work for them.
How does THAT happen?
“How does THAT happen?”
Unpaid interns?
I want to go to the municipal liquor store in St Anthony!
The ‘obfuscation’ argument is all wet. Selling more beer at the established market price = more profit for the business. There are markets outside of MN (Chicago, for one) who are clamoring for Surly. Only some dude blogging in his mom’s basement would think that there is more $ to be made by limiting production on purpose so you can charge a buck more per 4-pack. The profit margin involved means that dog don’t hunt. It’s a silly theory.
I’ll have you know I blog from my wife’s basement.
Sorry, Kevin. I was projecting. I actually DO blog from my mom’s basement.
The ending result of all this fuss equals further success for Surly and Surdyk’s, no matter how you want to look at it.
Danny B., I’m on your side. Give me some Spotted Cow!
However you want to slice it, Darkness is a marketing event. I don’t have a horse in the race between Surdyk’s and Surly (though I have been the recipient of some nasty insults from the latter party via Twitter) but it strikes me every party is acting in its own economic best interest.
I will say I now have much less respect for the Surly brand and its, erm, faithful customers. Adults should be able to have adult discussions. That’s what being an adult is.
Kevin said: “Could you imagine if Coastal Seafoods publicly castigated Stewart for selling their stuff at a markup?” I may have my own opinions on the consistency of your arguments Kevin, but I have to recognize some serious balls in comparing the work of what Chef Woodman does with his sourced proteins in his kitchen to that of what a store employee does in placing a pre-packaged/unaltered bottled of beer on a shelf.
Actually I have to censor/correct myself. In the interest of hitting the points I actually mean, rather than what I type, I have to retract my complaint about your consistency. You’re definitely consistent, Kevin. I just disagree with your conclusions. So please substitute the word “conclusions” for “consistency” above…
I would say it takes balls to compare what local wine and beer shops do to simply putting something on a shelf. Growing up, my mom owned a restaurant, and my dad owned a book store. Hard work either way.
Where did I say that all they do is “simply [put] something on a shelf?” I grew up working retail at small, family owned businesses… I know what’s involved. I said that there is a difference between what is done with a product from a chef in a kitchen vs. a pre-packaged/unaltered product that is placed on a shelf by a store employee… and there is… just as there is a difference between the paint available in an art supply store, and that same paint as it is realized by an artist on a canvas. Again, I think you’re comparing apples to oranges.
Surly people are funny.
I think it is great. Overpriced beer from an overrated producer.
Yeah I think this is really funny as well. I’m glad these idiots are throwing their money down the toilet buying $100!!!!! bombers on ebay of this crap when I can walk into a halfway decently stocked craft beer store and get a 4 pack for $10 of better beer than Darkness.